Announcement FEEDBACK | Wraiths & Necromancy

Dog

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Good day!

As of recently, the lore-team has been working hard on mending and fixing current lore pieces. Personally, I will be continuing to work on wraiths and necromancy with @Karim ,@Cepheid_, @Ryanark and @Jentos. In order to improve and ensure quality and good player review, we are desiring feedback on what players wish to see and what players wish to avoid us adding. Please remember that not all feedback may be added due to the purpose of nerfing or simply not being something we are looking for.

Unlike past rewrites, wraiths and necromancy will be drastically different from other playables and magics. This will mean it will require a lot of care and thought put into it; we are expecting to release wraiths by the end of the month (maybe a bit longer).

However, necromancy is expansive and has a lot of content that must be written, produced and amended. Due to the nature of this write, we will not be providing a solid time-frame for its release, though it shouldn't take too long. Necromancy will not be related to rune-magic or crystal sorcery. It is different to the school of death and will have a lot more in terms of dark magic.

A forewarning, both wraiths and necromancy will be extremely difficult to obtain. Please remember that metagaming may lead to blacklists from this privilege. It will be strictly monitored and progression cannot be cheated. We are currently not expecting to write any more undead playables at this given time.

To old wraith players, we are unsure if you will be grandfathered into this iteration. Please wait patiently and you shall receive a message on our decision.

If you have any ideas on what you wish to see for wraiths and necromancy, please leave a comment below. We will respond as swiftly as we can to ensure your feedback is noted and to give our personal thoughts and corrections. This place is for discussions and should not be used as a medium to be toxic or throw around tantrums about the server-state. We are trying to collect information for a piece of lore, not to debate about other lore-pieces or irrelevant topics.

Thank you!
 
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please. please. i need feedback. don’t upvote. please comment. someone. anyone.
 

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I will only comment on necromancy as I am interested a lot in it.
What I would love to see:
-Necromancers should have a curse mark on their neck or face, etc... This mark would always emit a small dark smoke causing a disgusting odor to be released, however, there are ways to hide it as well as the smell so that they can be sneaky and infiltrate cities and common places. It might be possible to hide the mark and the smell but one can't hide the aura emitting from it, so if someone has a way to see auras they can instantly locate them.
-Necromancers shouldn't be seen traveling around cities normally as they should always be sneaky and move in the shadows, live in the outcast, and always travel in shady places not in the main roads and main cities only in necessity.
-Necromancers should be naturally hated by everyone except death-aligned creatures/people or rune mages. Necromancers are breaking the laws of life and mortality and for that whoever knows their true identity should report them or try to fight them by natural instinct.
-Necromancers aren't liked by all undead as they only are accepted by the ones they summon, however they can make other undead like them by doing a certain task/ritual.
-Necromancers should be divided into tiers, as the better they are the more powerful beings they can summon.
-Most powerful undead beings are to be summoned by a group of highly experienced Necromancers, not just a single person.
-Beginners should only be able to summon super weak corpses that are missing limbs or that are totally useless in fights.
-If a Necromancer wishes to attack using his summons, an ET should be the one to emote the attacks of their summons after that the mage orders what they want.
-Necromancers being Necromancers can create custom undead (a mix between beings)
-Necromancers can only use things life/death and mortal aligned for their creations
-You can't call PVP on a necromancer as it ruins the aspect of the situation
-If a Necromancer manages to kill a life-aligned being, they can use their parts to corrupt them and turn them into powerful undead beings using a certain ritual to transform their essence. By this, we could see corrupted faes, etc... which would be very cool. Note: this can only be done by high-tier mages.
-Necromancers can't enter life-aligned areas without having their mark cause extreme pain and agony.
 
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KordoL

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What I wish to see is the option to be a necromancer without being somehow inherently evil. Necromancy, can and has been viewed a both also neutral and inherently good in other fantasy mediums and even real life cultures.

I also wish to see that the promise of it feeling different from sorcery and runemagic is seen becauseif I ever wish to seek out the arts of the dead, I wish for it to cause development within my character - questioning morals and whatever and not like the sorcery "Go kill others for me". I wish for it to have acompelling philosophy characters can think about.
 
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Dog

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-Necromancers should have a curse mark on their neck or face, etc... This mark would always emit a small dark smoke causing a disgusting odor to be released, however, there are ways to hide it as well as the smell so that they can be sneaky and infiltrate cities and common places. It might be possible to hide the mark and the smell but one can't hide the aura emitting from it, so if someone has a way to see auras they can instantly locate them.
We shall consider this proposal.


-Necromancers shouldn't be seen traveling around cities normally as they should always be sneaky and move in the shadows, live in the outcast, and always travel in shady places not in the main roads and main cities only in necessity.
We cannot force players to roleplay this. I am not going to control where necromancers roam, how they roam, or if they have to be sneaky. We are also not making methods to enforce this at the current given time. This isn't edgy necromancy, it is in relation to esoteric medieval necromancy practices, and so you won't be seeing your typical school-of-death deathbolts and rather great rituals or something of the ordeal.


-Necromancers should be naturally hated by everyone except death-aligned creatures/people or rune mages. Necromancers are breaking the laws of life and mortality and for that whoever knows their true identity should report them or try to fight them by natural instinct.
No, simply not. In common uses of necromancy, it was actually seen as a gift to have the ability to commune with spirits (i.e talking to dead relatives). You're thinking too hard on the evil prospective. This is not an antagonistic magic, it is a dark magic. The clear difference is that one is morally incorrect, whilst the other is not. On top of this, there is no reason for necromancers not to be hated by rune mages, because this is NOT runic magic, as stated in the thread.


-Necromancers aren't liked by all undead as they only are accepted by the ones they summon, however they can make other undead like them by doing a certain task/ritual.
This has been noted for discussion.


-Necromancers should be divided into tiers, as the better they are the more powerful beings they can summon.
There will be a progression system, though it will not be divided into tiers. This is not crystal sorcery or rune magic.

-Most powerful undead beings are to be summoned by a group of highly experienced Necromancers, not just a single person.
Yes, that will likely be the case my good comrade! Of course, this is not 100% yet.


-Beginners should only be able to summon super weak corpses that are missing limbs or that are totally useless in fights.
There's a chance beginners may not even be able to summon anything. It should be the stage of learning and developing. We are insisting on them being able to first draw our spirits to commune with before getting into the whole undead-raising. You see, it's an intricate process.

-If a Necromancer wishes to attack using his summons, an ET should be the one to emote the attacks of their summons after that the mage orders what they want.
A possibility, but uncertain. We cannot force an ET to appear and emote the summons attacking each time a necromancer is online and fighting. That will become too painful to handle. However, we will devise a system that is appropriate to mitigate this response.


-Necromancers being Necromancers can create custom undead (a mix between beings)
This will be noted for discussion.


Necromancers can only use things life/death and mortal aligned for their creations
This is mostly accurate, but will be noted for further discussion.


-You can't call PVP on a necromancer as it ruins the aspect of the situation
A hard no. Sadly, we are not implementing server rules. We are writing a magic. This would be unfair to other magics / sorcery / playable that still have to commit to PVP if it is called upon them. This will not be implemented.

-If a Necromancer manages to kill a life-aligned being, they can use their parts to corrupt them and turn them into powerful undead beings using a certain ritual to transform their essence. By this, we could see corrupted faes, etc... which would be very cool. Note: this can only be done by high-tier mages.
This feedback will be noted for future discussions, though seems like something of an addition that can be added at a later date (if people get high enough in necromancy).


-Necromancers can't enter life-aligned areas without having their mark cause extreme pain and agony.
If we go with the mark, that is possible. However, take into account, necromancers are not undead (not yet, at least). You do not have to be a wraith to do necromancy, you do not have to be a lich to do necromancy. Fundamentally, most necromancers will be living people that twist life and death. In that case, it would make no sense for life-aligned areas to reject them (unless if the prospective 'soul-changing' aspect is brought into place). HOWEVER, this will be noted for extensive discussion as it is something that needs to be addressed.


What I wish to see is the option to be a necromancer without being somehow inherently evil. Necromancy, can and has been viewed a both also neutral and inherently good in other fantasy mediums and even real life cultures.
This is what we are striving for. Nobody will be forced to roleplay a villain as a necromancer; they may be chaotic in alignment, though will not be considered evil. A lot of necromancy in medieval-era and prehistoric lore was used to communicate with dead ancestors for guidance, and/or to return lost love ones etcetera. I do not want necromancy to become a fundamentally cutsie magic, it will be dark in theme (and sometimes gruesome), but can be used for good. However, we are not barring anyone from taking the evil route in the slightest.


I also wish to see that the promise of it feeling different from sorcery and runemagic is seen becauseif I ever wish to seek out the arts of the dead, I wish for it to cause development within my character - questioning morals and whatever and not like the sorcery "Go kill others for me". I wish for it to have acompelling philosophy characters can think about.
That's exactly what is being done!

MOREEEEE FEEEDBACK
 

Snavier

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I do want to see more wraith interactions that aren't as evil, will wraiths still be emotionless and can they still not kill people?
 
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I do want to see more wraith interactions that aren't as evil, will wraiths still be emotionless and can they still not kill people?
Wraiths were never emotionless and whoever told you this is lying. If we have an emotionless playable, that lacks development and character, it will not be fun to play. Even the Great One has a vastly complex personality that is discovered and explored in roleplay. Also, I don't understand your other questions. 'Can they still not kill people?' The wraiths killed a lot of people last war. Unless if you're asking if that's all they do, then no. This rendition of wraiths will bring in more flavour, philosophy and culture.
 

Sukitoru

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I would like to see Death and Necromancy grow beyond just the telltale definitions of "Evilguy Spookman" and into the conceptual greats of a man creating life to play god (Frankenstein), or a man who is dying of a sickness, trying to stay alive (Lichdom) - I do not want inherently evil rituals or casting, but I also do not want it to be "Don't worry, you don't NEED human bones to make a skeleton, just use some pig bones!".

This sort of Death-Necromancy evolution, I feel, can play into some philosophies. Arguably, Death as an "element of reality" is the strongest but simultaneously the least aligned to goods or evils. Yes, as the concept of death is seen as negative, the rest of the world would see it as negative, but to those caught in the hands of dead-men walking, it is thought of as savior-like. Holy, even.

Undead can remain mindless or manic, as that is a reasonable side-effect, but I don't think Undying or Necrotically aligned individuals need to be "crazy and murderous to life aligned people and automatically burned by silver and life areas!!!"; That should be up to them to decide, not their playable. Death can be angry and rapid, sure, but death in my mind can so too be loving, kind, and patient. It will defend you and it will fight for you, not just kill and destroy. It will embrace you in your saddest times and give you itself as an option, but never force you. It will wait, and wait, until it is your time to greet it proper.

TL:DR; I do not want inherently evil necromancy. Evil in the perspective of others, maybe, or good in the perspective of some, but nothing inherently evil. Samewise, no inherently detrimental attributes that lack sense. A nice Death would be lovely to play around with; A kind Death.

dunno why i'm saying this when i literally run magic team, but regardless...

If you need help with the base of it or anchoring it into the server magic foundations, DM me Ser W0lf!
 

Lyte

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I think that
Necromancers should have these following abilities
Corpse Extraction”: With this the necromancer can call forth the body of any dead being/creature (If their will//level/tier is high enough for said being/creature. After trying to awaken the corpse 3 times without success the Necromancer wouldn’t be able to do so again) The necromancer can call the corpse of enemies he has defeated as long as life doesn't exist within them

“Corpse Save”: Now having a Corpse by their side to aid them in battle the Necromancer can choose too save it in his shadow, so it may be called upon later for use in battle or whatever the Necromancer desires.

“Corpse Exchange”: During a battle situation the Necromancer can exchange their exact position with the corpse summoned. (Can only be used once per battle)


“Necromancers Domain”: The Necromancer can activate an area affect (20 Blocks around initial position) that grants more speed and power to him and his Corpses

The Corpses cannot go outside a 30
Block radius of the Necromancer.
The Corpses are lifeless and cannot
Speak or think for themselves
It is what the Necromancer wishes
That would happen. Depending on the tier/level of the Necromancer, the number of corpses can be used at a time and stored at a time

Corpses of Death aligned creatures cannot be used.


Yeah :)
 
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I think that
Necromancers should have these following abilities
Corpse Extraction”: With this the necromancer can call forth the body of any dead being/creature (If their will//level/tier is high enough for said being/creature. After trying to awaken the corpse 3 times without success the Necromancer wouldn’t be able to do so again) The necromancer can call the corpse of enemies he has defeated as long as life doesn't exist within them

“Corpse Save”: Now having a Corpse by their side to aid them in battle the Necromancer can choose too save it in his shadow, so it may be called upon later for use in battle or whatever the Necromancer desires.

“Corpse Exchange”: During a battle situation the Necromancer can exchange their exact position with the corpse summoned. (Can only be used once per battle)


“Necromancers Domain”: The Necromancer can activate an area affect (20 Blocks around initial position) that grants more speed and power to him and his Corpses

The Corpses cannot go outside a 30
Block radius of the Necromancer.
The Corpses are lifeless and cannot
Speak or think for themselves
It is what the Necromancer wishes
That would happen. Depending on the tier/level of the Necromancer, the number of corpses can be used at a time and stored at a time

Corpses of Death aligned creatures cannot be used.


Yeah :)
You ripped this off that one manhwa about ranking up or smth. This is unlikely to happen, sadly.


I would like to see Death and Necromancy grow beyond just the telltale definitions of "Evilguy Spookman" and into the conceptual greats of a man creating life to play god (Frankenstein), or a man who is dying of a sickness, trying to stay alive (Lichdom) - I do not want inherently evil rituals or casting, but I also do not want it to be "Don't worry, you don't NEED human bones to make a skeleton, just use some pig bones!".

This sort of Death-Necromancy evolution, I feel, can play into some philosophies. Arguably, Death as an "element of reality" is the strongest but simultaneously the least aligned to goods or evils. Yes, as the concept of death is seen as negative, the rest of the world would see it as negative, but to those caught in the hands of dead-men walking, it is thought of as savior-like. Holy, even.

Undead can remain mindless or manic, as that is a reasonable side-effect, but I don't think Undying or Necrotically aligned individuals need to be "crazy and murderous to life aligned people and automatically burned by silver and life areas!!!"; That should be up to them to decide, not their playable. Death can be angry and rapid, sure, but death in my mind can so too be loving, kind, and patient. It will defend you and it will fight for you, not just kill and destroy. It will embrace you in your saddest times and give you itself as an option, but never force you. It will wait, and wait, until it is your time to greet it proper.

TL:DR; I do not want inherently evil necromancy. Evil in the perspective of others, maybe, or good in the perspective of some, but nothing inherently evil. Samewise, no inherently detrimental attributes that lack sense. A nice Death would be lovely to play around with; A kind Death.

dunno why i'm saying this when i literally run magic team, but regardless...

If you need help with the base of it or anchoring it into the server magic foundations, DM me Ser W0lf!
Yes, we repeated this above. It will not be inherently evil.
 

Lyte

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You ripped this off that one manhwa about ranking up or smth. This is unlikely to happen, sadly.
Lmaooo yeah😅
 
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1. Allow me to contribute. Haha.. just kidding. Unless..
2. I honestly do not have a lot to say. What I know looks good so far. I do pray that anyone can with dedication and a lot of effort take part in it and are not locked out due to a certain alignment. Godly man shouldn't be unable to fall from grace. Rune mage shouldn't be disallowed from venturing where they shouldn't. Only at playables do I think there should be an inability to do so. Naturally, if you were to pick up necromancy you would loose any other boon or magick learnt in the past.
 
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I really like this interpretation of necromancy! too often you see the whole 'RRRR outcast murder evil we want world suffering1!1' instead of an interesting, more so refreshing perspective of a 'spiritual' (unsure of a word, perhaps more so a connection with the dead rather than a utilization?) school of magic. Honestly from reading the feedback and seeing the OG post, im super excited to see these things be implemented! An incredible job guys <3
 

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Wraiths:

Would like:
- Immortality! They were immortal (as in, never-aging) before, and that should remain. It opens up so much potential for characters that want to avoid death for one reason or another.
- Not linked to a single deity or method for obtaining.
- Not linked to a single alignment. Alignments are silly, an oversimplification of morality, and should be discarded entirely. Characters shouldn't be inherently evil - even if the methods for obtaining it end up being extreme. Grey is the right colour, in all its shades.
- Keep them simple, yet flexible! Their basic, common characteristics should be very few, clear and easy to understand and play out. If someone wants to add extra weaknesses to their own character, they are free to do so. For example, being ageless, having a phylactery as only way to permanently end them, and being weak to light and silver seems just fine to me. From that, it's possible to derive all other related behaviors on one's own.
- Replication! Having a way to turn other people into wraiths once you have become one has so much potential! Even if you have to ask permission from ET or LT for each character turned, and said character can't do it to others, it's still something that would be good having. Imagine a realm made of wraiths, created using said method. Or a hidden sect! Or simply a group of mages that thought letting death claim them would be a waste of all their time and knowledge.

Necromancy:

Would like:
- "Mechanical" zombie and skeleton summoning - if possible. To use in pvp combat, not just crp. Though this seems to be a harder request.
- Raising and controlling the dead, for obvious reasons.
- Using the undead not only for combat, but also menial tasks.
- Seeing, communicating with, trapping and moving spirits from and to bodies.
- Creation of ghosts, using spirits without trapping them in a body.
- Remote usage, for sending one's creations elsewhere to wreak havoc or just deliver letters.
- Character resurrections, if possible, and with all the downsides bringing them back may cause.
- Any interesting way to play god! Maybe merging souls together? Creating entirely new ones? Building a perfect body made of the best of "materials"? You know what I mean.
- Not linked to a single deity or method for obtaining.
- Not linked to a single alignment.
 
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1. Allow me to contribute. Haha.. just kidding. Unless..
2. I honestly do not have a lot to say. What I know looks good so far. I do pray that anyone can with dedication and a lot of effort take part in it and are not locked out due to a certain alignment. Godly man shouldn't be unable to fall from grace. Rune mage shouldn't be disallowed from venturing where they shouldn't. Only at playables do I think there should be an inability to do so. Naturally, if you were to pick up necromancy you would loose any other boon or magick learnt in the past.
Of course. If anyone is able to put in dedication and hard-work to achieve something in roleplay, we will not be barring them from joining, regardless of their alignments.


I really like this interpretation of necromancy! too often you see the whole 'RRRR outcast murder evil we want world suffering1!1' instead of an interesting, more so refreshing perspective of a 'spiritual' (unsure of a word, perhaps more so a connection with the dead rather than a utilization?) school of magic. Honestly from reading the feedback and seeing the OG post, im super excited to see these things be implemented! An incredible job guys <3
Cheers!


- Immortality! They were immortal (as in, never-aging) before, and that should remain. It opens up so much potential for characters that want to avoid death for one reason or another.
This will be implemented. Wraiths are undead; they are unable to age and will return to the mortal world if they are defeated. However, they cannot escape PKs and will be restricted from playing their characters should they break lore or rules.


- Not linked to a single deity or method for obtaining.
Wraiths have canonically been under the Great One (If you're unsure who that is. I played the character after Transistor; it is the death spirit that specifically experimented and created the wraiths). However, I shall take this into consideration and discuss it further as I also feel having other ways to obtain this would be good.


- Not linked to a single alignment. Alignments are silly, an oversimplification of morality, and should be discarded entirely. Characters shouldn't be inherently evil - even if the methods for obtaining it end up being extreme. Grey is the right colour, in all its shades.
We are not implementing alignments; they are not required to be evil, nor are they required to be good. Their alignments are discerned by the players who roleplay their characters -- we only provide the tools for their success.


- Keep them simple, yet flexible! Their basic, common characteristics should be very few, clear and easy to understand and play out. If someone wants to add extra weaknesses to their own character, they are free to do so. For example, being ageless, having a phylactery as only way to permanently end them, and being weak to light and silver seems just fine to me. From that, it's possible to derive all other related behaviors on one's own.
Unlike most playables, we have to take in more consideration and detail when creating undead. I cannot write them to be simple for the purposes of nerfing and because they are not traditional characters. Of course, we have already considered these options already and will likely implement them in due time.


- Replication! Having a way to turn other people into wraiths once you have become one has so much potential! Even if you have to ask permission from ET or LT for each character turned, and said character can't do it to others, it's still something that would be good having. Imagine a realm made of wraiths, created using said method. Or a hidden sect! Or simply a group of mages that thought letting death claim them would be a waste of all their time and knowledge.
In terms of replication and other ways to turn into players, we will never give players the ability to turn other users into wraiths by themselves. To become a wraith is an arduous journey of hardship, research, experimentation, exploration and dedication. They are not vampires (wherein a vampire can spread the curse to another). At the end of the day, it usually tumbles down into the race being spread to less-than-average roleplayers which means we have to step in to moderate. On top of this, all trials, interactions and exploration done in order to become a wraith will be unique for each player to ensure freshness. Of course, we are not stopping wraith-players from coming together and making their hidden sects, public factions or even undead nations.

- "Mechanical" zombie and skeleton summoning - if possible. To use in pvp combat, not just crp. Though this seems to be a harder request.
- Raising and controlling the dead, for obvious reasons.
That is not within my power. We are looking for feedback in relevance to roleplay and lore, not PvP or in-game mechanics. If you would like to see this implemented upon the lore being published, please contact the development team (as we have no plans to communicate this, nor do we advocate for PvP benefits).


- Raising and controlling the dead, for obvious reasons.
- Using the undead not only for combat, but also menial tasks.
- Seeing, communicating with, trapping and moving spirits from and to bodies.
- Creation of ghosts, using spirits without trapping them in a body.
- Remote usage, for sending one's creations elsewhere to wreak havoc or just deliver letters.
This feedback has been noted and been written for discussion. However, most of these will be allowed (unless if we decide to not go for it).


- Character resurrections, if possible, and with all the downsides bringing them back may cause.
This feedback has been noted and written down for discussion. We may allow character resurrections in the future if we introduce a lesser undead playable (such as our old rendition of corpseman). However, we will unlikely allow for necromancers to revive player characters, nor will we ever allow necromancers to undo permanent-deaths. Though, I do like this idea if it is properly balanced as it should be.


- Any interesting way to play god! Maybe merging souls together? Creating entirely new ones? Building a perfect body made of the best of "materials"? You know what I mean.
Necromancy is not the art of creating souls. That is both unfathomable, unlikely to happen and is unironically the most powerful thing you could ever do. However, there will be ways to "play god", as you call it. I would rather not use that term, however, as it makes the magic seem unnecessarily overpowered (it is vast and has a lot of content, but is not overpowered).


- Not linked to a single deity or method for obtaining.
There will be multiple methods of obtaining this and it will NOT be linked to a single deity or realm.


- Not linked to a single alignment.
It will not be linked to a single alignment, as stated above.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

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