Alahan's Feedback Post

[Alahan]

IGN: Alahan​

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Suggestion, feedback or idea!​

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Hello-hello kind FRP community. I've a brilliant idea to propose, and one I'm absolutely certain has been seen a multitude of times before. I think it's an idea that can be enjoyed both by those who play it and by those who interact with it -- but it has to be done correctly and with a certain cool-factor in mind when regarding how it's written.​

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Every time I revisit the FRP community I look through the races and get a little happier with the selection -- things such as hobbits and tieflings have been integrated alongside subtypes of elves, with various transformative races such as werewolves, and on the other hand vampires exist as well. I also understand the server integrates these with the playerbase's population and interest in mind, to ensure that there are enough people -- interested people too of course -- to integrate the race without having them appear to be more or less endangered or extinct.​

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Anyway, hear me out before you grit your teeth. Make sure to read the disclaimer before commenting!​

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Beastfolk​

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Beastfolk can be named however you want it, but that is the foundational term that just about everyone recognizes to define: Tabaxi and Khajiit or Argonians from D&D/Elder Scrolls, Lizardmen and Skaven from the Warhammer universe, Worgen, Tauren, and Pandaren from WoW -- and I could go on. Other MCRP servers have implemented these races as a specific sub-type (IE: just adding Tabaxi) with varying success, and others have implemented multiple sub-types (IE: Tabaxi, Lizardmen, Avians, etc) under the broad overlying "Beastfolk" term to define the race as a whole, also with varying success. Ultimately, the success of the race is defined by its lore first and its players second regardless of numbers, and rarely necessitates a requirement they hold a nation-level of activity -- because usually they won't, and their interactions through wandering or living in a city are unique and make up for it, adding plenty of flavor to the universe as I can attest. Many races are destined to be loners, vassals, wanderers, etc -- and that can be spun into a positive rather than a negative.​

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I pose this idea because I and some others I've seen throughout FRP's history have asked repeatedly for a race such as this, or perhaps alternatively a magic such as a form of druidism, shamanism, spiritualism, or instead a transformative race to allow one to play as the widely-enjoyed fantasy Beastfolk many have come to enjoy. I think a hand full of players from both past and present would seriously enjoy this, and many people that don't intend to play something such as this would find it interesting to interact with however they might. Interactions range from trade to cultural exchange, outlawing the race in cities if you don't like them, clashes of religion, new albeit ancient technologies or magics presenting themselves, and more. Nothing is wrong with pelting a Beastfolk to make a pair of boots and a fancy hat too -- it's roleplay!​

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Disclaimer: First thing that may have popped into some of your heads is "furries". It's no secret that furries will play as Beastfolk. That's perfectly fine though, nothing is wrong with it at all so long they roleplay well and in-universe, and it gives these players just the right fantasy escape they're looking for. The idea is to however make a race that isn't something to frown at as an outsider as some might when they hear that term, so I'm talking to the crowd that's frowning right now: a race that is interesting to all, cool, interactable, not cringe, fits the universe just like in Elder Scrolls, D&D, Warhammer, or WoW -- and it's definitely doable, I can evidence that. I'm just curious if people might find something like this interesting; if they'd play it as they do in their favorite video games, want to interact with it, or if they simply think it's a great or bad idea -- and why. The server doesn't have to be in the position to take it on at all just yet so don't reply commenting with server statistics and what-not, it's just an idea post after all. But I can tell you, there's definitely people interested in playing it, at least there was the last time I visited and saw a similar post put up. I know I definitely am!​

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Thoughts? dont rip me apart pls​

 

[Sukitoru]

beastfolk are a cool idea just might attract odd folks is the usual argument

just thought i'd get that out of the way before anyone bothered with a text-wall

personal opinion - cool, beastfolk pog, woohoo!

side note: submitting magic is totally acceptable, i'd welcome magic submissions. druidism is being worked on though :)

 

[Alahan]

side note: submitting magic is totally acceptable, i'd welcome magic submissions. druidism is being worked on though :)

very pog

 

[AdventureApollo]

hi, i'd like to submit a 2-page rant against beast races but I have to study for an exam that's 75% of my final grade so instead I would like to quickly state the following points

1. It would attract "those" types of players

2. Multiple very different beast sub-races is too much, hardly anybody will play the same sub-races thus splintering all of them into different groups. As well as making new players oversaturated at start due to being unable to decide which sub-race to choose.

3. There will not be enough beastfolk players to justify the creation of even a single race. Races are only added if there's enough players to justify their creation, as well as enough long-term players that are capable of maintaining a nation for that race for a prolonged period of time. We should not be further diversifying at this time, considering that the velnari are looking very poor on activity atm, and the hobbits don't yet have their own nation. Having too much diversification may cause new players to become oversaturated or feel like they can't racially identify with any communities. (Due to their race having a very low user count)

4. Quality: another rule for races is that they have a good amount of lore when added; we're talking history, culture, religions, etc. A great example of this would be the Vel'nari, who had somewhere around 7 large forum posts + massive eventline prior to their release, they also started off with a pretty sizeable and affluent playerbase that lasted for a couple months. Beastfolk would need a similar level of quality in order to be a fun and playable race, so that they're not just one general boring culture that happens to have wings or whatever.

 

[Sukitoru]

6. The first lore admin stated that beasts races cannot have magic. This includes all future possible playables and event creatures such as shroomites. This may/may not still be in place, however a great deal of his lore declarations are still enforced today.

Good luck on the test, but (regardless of argument for/against beast races) this is now inaccurate.

 

[Alahan]

hi, i'd like to submit a 2-page rant against beast races but I have to study for an exam that's 75% of my final grade so instead I would like to quickly state the following points

1. It would attract "those" types of players

2. Multiple very different beast sub-races is too much, hardly anybody will play the same sub-races thus splintering all of them into different groups. As well as making new players oversaturated at start due to being unable to decide which sub-race to choose.

3. There will not be enough beastfolk players to justify the creation of even a single race. Races are only added if there's enough players to justify their creation, as well as enough long-term players that are capable of maintaining a nation for that race for a prolonged period of time. We should not be further diversifying at this time, considering that the velnari are looking very poor on activity atm, and the hobbits don't yet have their own nation. Having too much diversification may cause new players to become oversaturated or feel like they can't racially identify with any communities. (Due to their race having a very low user count)

4. Quality: another rule for races is that they have a good amount of lore when added; we're talking history, culture, religions, etc. A great example of this would be the Vel'nari, who had somewhere around 7 large forum posts + massive eventline prior to their release, they also started off with a pretty sizeable and affluent playerbase that lasted for a couple months. Beastfolk would need a similar level of quality in order to be a fun and playable race, so that they're not just one general boring culture that happens to have wings or whatever.

I'd like to counter at least. Most of my counters are in the intro to the post and were points already made but if you skimmed due to the test I get it, no worries.

1. I'll put myself out there: I'm one of "those" players, presuming "those" is a connotation for "furries". I'd like to think I'm pretty conservative, and many others are as well. Nothing is wrong with attracting "those" players. They're a very kind-hearted bunch of people to that I can evidence and attest, and the over-arching outsider opinion is often levied by bias without having ever met these individuals. They're much better people than many will tell you, but anyone is welcome to their opinions.

But what if your definition of "those" is something worse? To that I say, refer to the server rules. If a player abuses them, they abuse them and they can and will be punished regardless of what they do, how they do it, and what they play when it's done. Ultimately it's not about what players it attracts, and to be pretty fair, halflings and dwarves attract a much, much, much worse party of people, and rules certainly apply to that as well. How often does it occur, though? Not very often at all. When it does though, it's promptly dealt with in any cases I'm aware of, and I've quite literally never encountered something similar with beastfolk races. It's typically elven players in any server or game and I'm sure Moderators would express the same sentiments.

2. I agree with this but covered it. To summarize, it really doesn't matter about the saturation. Just make the entire broad "beastfolk" race compatible, that's usually what determines a race anyways. Just don't make them compatible with elves, humans, dwarves, halflings, etcetera. That's strange territory I usually compare to goblins or orcs with humans and elves.

3. I also covered this, but heavily disagree. Beastfolk quality is easy. Just ask me to write it and I'll deal with the rest. I'm a good writer, I just don't like to be LT anywhere because I'm biased and write only what I like. If not me, then another LT, but really all a race needs is a good mechanics page, simple history, and simple culture to base off of. Players do the rest. Player count does not at all matter. Races do not always need to run entire nations, and many races are destined to be destitute wanderers, vassals, travelers, etcetera. How often do you see Argonians and Khajiit in Elder Scrolls games? Pretty rarely, but these two races' characters tend to make some of the largest unique impacts on the player experience. They're unique, interesting, and their rarity is an advantage to their mystery -- especially if you want some rare authentic pelts.

ESO is the only real Elder Scrolls game that gives you access to their homelands. In Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind, etcetera -- they're pretty uncommon unless you're in a prison or bandit camp and the game defaults a race into a cell or bandit gear. M'aiq is a name we all know, I beg you to find an Elder Scrolls player who doesn't know him. Why do we remember him? He's one of those cool, unique, interesting, likeable wandering Khajiit you don't see so often with witty or non-sense lines, and many quests entangled to them are spiced by the zest of their quality character. Sure: M'aiq could've been an Imperial or Nord in Oblivion and Skyrim, but then he'd be a forgettable commoner. This is at least all true if you don't already play a Khajiit or Argonian.

4. Agreed & disagreed. However, quality does not mean quantity. I think that's all I need to say, but I'll explain: I would have fun. Suspecting players wouldn't have fun due to lack of content is simply wrong. A lot of the server was missing lore content for months, and people had fun. I could have fun with a blank paper as long as I'm playing a beastfolk. A lot of people have fun with a blank piece of paper just to play a pointy-eared silver-haired human -- an elf. Others have fun playing bearded mining midgets. Why? These are races you can relate to from other universes: Lord of the Rings, WoW, Elder Scrolls, Warhammer, I could go on. Beastfolk are in D&D, Elder Scrolls, WoW, I could go on ... what I'm saying is, lore in quantity isn't exactly a necessity for player fun. It's about what the player makes of the sandbox they're given.

But yes, lore is important and always encouraged. Otherwise, the sandbox could be a figurative litterbox of turds nobody likes because everyone plays it differently and wrong. So I also agree.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and hope you passed the test

 

[Mezameta]

Bet that bottom middle image will scare all the Elf Players away from your idea with how that fella got Elf Head

 

[Alahan]

Bet that bottom middle image will scare all the Elf Players away from your idea with how that fella got Elf Head

so true king

 

[wootdahnoot]

Bet that bottom middle image will scare all the Elf Players away from your idea with how that fella got Elf Head

shut up

 

[TheWizard0808]

I could rant for hours about why society hates furries and why they shouldn't- but I think that's too much.

I personally don't care about furries or their community, so attracting "those types of players" isn't a concern for me at all.

However, I don't think I'm currently able to talk further about the state of the server and whether it could be good or not to add it (I haven't played in 3 months), but in my very outdated opinion, sure.

 

[Haseroth]

while i understand that, you know how to properly roleplay beastraces ryloth. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many other people. I think the wolfwalker fiasco has proven that FRP simply cannot be trusted with such options, unfortunate as it is since i think beastraces would do wonders to enrich the lore of the server and add variety to playstyles.

 

[Alahan]

while i understand that, you know how to properly roleplay beastraces ryloth. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many other people. I think the wolfwalker fiasco has proven that FRP simply cannot be trusted with such options, unfortunate as it is since i think beastraces would do wonders to enrich the lore of the server and add variety to playstyles.

Essay incoming but I think it covers most of the common issues:​

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My personal belief is that success and failure lies with whomever is leading by example. Wolfwalkers as far as I'm aware had little once it began to spread beyond the first few, whether that be due to separated leadership or a lack thereof entirely. Nobody is going to play something they've never played before perfectly right off the bat, not as expected. However, they can be guided to roleplay correctly, given positive and constructive criticism or advice to correct how they play, and eventually do so right. Remember when you first played MCRP? I remember when I first started. My skin was a Steve skin with the clothing changed to a different color, poor shading, looked horrible, and my character was a Russian named Ezklov. I don't even know how I was allowed to RP for as long as I did as that, but this was in 2013 and the only reason why I improved was guides, peers, and their guidance -- and maybe a verbal warning or two from loremasters where it was at.

With that in mind it might be a job for the LT, but it is also a huge responsibility of the players around them, especially whomever turned someone into a Wolfwalker. I pin the blame more on those Wolfwalkers who made other Wolfwalkers. They failed to teach, to be blunt. But what if it's an open race?​

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I'd happily correct anyone. It's really not too difficult at all to play -- it's just about having the right usage of accents if you choose to use them in speech (presuming any culture/lore involving the race would incorporate accents, which in FRP the language system is actually a very good way to forgo accented speech and replace it with alternative language), and in other cases it's just about if they RP the cultures right. I'll get back to language and accents though.​

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The only other issues really show up in CRP, and it can get as complicated as you write it to be. It can be as simple as you write it to be. "Beastfolk are as strong as humans, and as agile as elves. They do not have enhanced vision in the dark, due to XYZ reason. Their claws can be used as weapons, but break and injure their user easily against armor."​

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People might argue, "But claws are OP! I can't disarm them!" Well, you can also grow your nails out and file them down as any of the current races, and Velnari have horns, so there you go. It's otherwise quite balanced with just that, maybe even weaker than it should be.​

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In complete honesty, the only serious issues I have ever found from a race like this is that players really, really, really like to play as albinos. I'm curious if this is a similar trope with Wolfwalkers or any races for that matter on FRP, but regardless I don't know for sure why -- I think it's because it's unique, and they want to be unique -- that's why they choose to play a beastfolk, usually. What I always do is write in immediately that albinism just isn't possible. Issue corrected. They're still unique as a beastfolk, and therefore every beastfolk won't be snow-white. Plus it looks weird in 75% of the not-so-snowy map.​

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Back to language, the more marginal issues are always accent-related, and so I always pose: why write in the accent? Have an accent on your character card, "Russian accent" or a term more lore-friendly, speak in third person with normal writing, and let the other player imagine how they speak for you (it's much easier for the writer too).​

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"Thees one ees aah wildleeng, yees -- aah bandet o' thee forests, oh-ho yees." I'm certain anyone can read this if they are a native English speaker, but this is how I'd write an accent for my character if I wanted to. But that's not how I started. I started with the below, because I had no guidance.​

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"Theez juan eez awhh wiyldleinng, yizz -- aw bawndit ov daw fowrezts, oh-ho yizz."​

The second one is much more illegible, and is the wrong way. There's a term for it, but I forbid it be said. That aside, what if both are difficult to read? Well, like I said, the language plugin is a super awesome boon, and character cards are for describing your character, and maybe an accent too. More importantly though, someone should tell them that it's wrong -- the accent can't be read, it's annoying, but express to them why and show them an alternative, or how to put in their card how their accent sounds maybe with a YouTube video for reference. It does wonders.​

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I can't think of many other issues. Usually a how-to guide fixes the issue anyway. Wolfwalkers have no guide, just lore. Guides are important!​

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Anyway, it's a shame other lore pieces give new ideas a bad wrap. I encourage the community to give it a shot at least. :]​

 

[AdventureApollo]

"Those types of players" refers to a sub-category of furries that are the source of the widely-spread negative stereotypes that affect furries.

I have nothing against normal furries, a furry was one of the people responsible for getting me set up on the server and I respect them enormously. However I do take issue with furries that do "cringe" things. I also don't have an issue with your ability to play a beastfolk, or most other older payers.
(For grammar purposes, whenever I mention something along the lines of "weird furries," I am referencing a group of odd furries and not furries as a whole)

The issue with beastfolk is that there are genuinely a lot of those "cringe furry stereotypes" in the roleplay community and thus might pose a threat to the "serious" roleplay of FantasyRP. This is something that was a huge fear for the lore team of yesterday, and one of the reasons why they haven't yet added a default beast-like race.

Wolfwalkers were the first non-werewolf beast-like playable added, those who played wolfwalkers were screened beforehand by staff to prevent the playable from devolving into a low-quality cringefest. These measures worked well until the "wolfwalker fiasco" that Haseroth mentioned, where 2 wolfwalkers acted like dogs by licking others, barking, and chasing one-another in Aellen's square. Although me and Aellen's "army" were there to quickly put a stop to it. (and got them a strike by staff), one could be concerned for the amount of new roleplayers that would be turned away if they saw their roleplay in action. Reducing FantasyRP's activity and quality...

Now imagine if there were no staff screenings or acquisition processes to be a wolfwalker, more players like those 2 would be able to do just that straight off the bat. Combine that with the underage schoolrp'ers that sometimes visit, and I would fear for the day when the roleplay quality on FantasyRP dropped to whatever the fuck I saw when I first joined SchoolRP.

 

[Alahan]

snip

In that case I agree. It can be cringe with the wrong people playing, and those sorts of folks are certainly possible to come and a liability. But it's not impossible to correct them in such a case, and I've corrected them before; actually recently too, within the last year having to do so to what I'd define as "cringe furries", and they actually took the advice quite well and developed within weeks into some of the best roleplayers I've encountered with a race such as this. It loops me back to guides and etcetera. It doesn't always work though, and when regarding SchoolRPers I most certainly expect sub-par RP, but this isn't exclusive to any race they can play -- it's a problem with any race they play, and therefore not a problem of beastfolk, wolfwalkers, elves, humans, halflings, whatever. It's a problem with their RP in specific, and the race isn't at fault.

Anyway, if staff screening is possible for a race I'd in fact highly encourage it! It helps enable quality and disables quantity. I in most communities with application-based races personally screen them as a player, and if I disapprove of the application or their RP later on, I'll let staff know and they'll handle it. Even without staff screening, that's possible since it's player-involved.